Creative Mind Soul Sessions

3 Stages of Change

July 20, 2020 Debra Berndt Maldonado & Robert Maldonado, PhD. — Life Coach Training & Personal Transformation Experts. Season 2 Episode 20
Creative Mind Soul Sessions
3 Stages of Change
Chapters
Creative Mind Soul Sessions
3 Stages of Change
Jul 20, 2020 Season 2 Episode 20
Debra Berndt Maldonado & Robert Maldonado, PhD. — Life Coach Training & Personal Transformation Experts.

Do you feel like your life is constantly repeating itself and you are not sure how to change your results? 

This episode explores the stages of life that lead you to your true self. We found that people who are having conflicts in life are stuck in a certain stage, and that is the reason they cannot break free. 

Since these stages are unconscious, we need to understand them, be honest with ourselves as to which stage we are in, and be ready to go to the next level of awakening.

Join us in our interactive online community here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/creativemindcoaching

Show Notes Transcript

Do you feel like your life is constantly repeating itself and you are not sure how to change your results? 

This episode explores the stages of life that lead you to your true self. We found that people who are having conflicts in life are stuck in a certain stage, and that is the reason they cannot break free. 

Since these stages are unconscious, we need to understand them, be honest with ourselves as to which stage we are in, and be ready to go to the next level of awakening.

Join us in our interactive online community here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/creativemindcoaching

3 Stages of Becoming Your True Self

Mon, 7/20 10:10AM • 37:16

SPEAKERS

Debra Maldonado, Robert Maldonado



Debra Maldonado 00:03

Welcome to Creative Mind Living, a podcast for personal growth based on the works of Carl Jung neuroscience and Eastern philosophies. We're your hosts Debra Berndt Maldonado, and Dr. Rob Maldonado, founders of Creative Mind Coaching.



Robert Maldonado 00:21

Hello, everyone. Hello, welcome. Welcome to soul sessions Saturday



Debra Maldonado 00:26

Soul session. We're your voice community. Sorry for talking at the same time. Good.



Robert Maldonado 00:34

Who are you?



Debra Maldonado 00:35

I'm Debra.



Robert Maldonado 00:37

I'm Robert Maldonado. And today we're talking about something really cool and interesting. Which is transformation. The stages of transformation.



Debra Maldonado 00:51

Yes. And I think a lot of people ask us, you know, they've done a lot of personal development work. Why am I still coming? Back to the same things why why am I not having that breakthrough? I tried everything you know what is and then if you're a coach, we you know, we do coach training so a lot of coaches follow us and interested in Jungian coaching. And they asked like, how can I get better results out of my clients? How can I help my clients get better results? And so I think whether you're a coach or you're doing personal development, well anyone who's a coach should be doing personal development to this is actually going to change your perspective on where you're at. And maybe you might have an insight to what is stopping you and how to get out of it. Thank you. Someone's just said you guys are both looking very elegant. We put on our find a Sunday best Saturday best today. You know, you have to do whatever you can inquire and see. We got to dress up for for you guys.



Robert Maldonado 01:55

Right. Yeah. So what are the stages of transformation?



Debra Maldonado 02:01

Well, there's three stages there is and we'll go through all of them. The first stage is the stage of conformity. The second stage is rebellion. And then the third stage is resolution. And so let's start with conformity. It really is about adaptation. And everyone goes through these stages. This isn't like, only reserved for some people, everyone goes through this. So I see early in life, we we have to adapt, we have to conform. It's part of our nature.



Robert Maldonado 02:34

Yes, and it's a great survival strategy because as human beings we are social creatures. And, and so we, we need to be taken care of, you know, they say humans have the longest developmental period of all animals, meaning we need a lot of care and a lot of nurturing a lot of education. A lot of You know, it's a long process. 



Debra Maldonado 03:03

I know most animals start walking out of the womb, they're like walking and feeling themselves around. They're not being carried.



Robert Maldonado 03:10

Yeah. And so it's a it's a good strategy. But then when it carries on into adult life, the strategy of conformity, right of conforming to the group hmm to the group standards, and in essence, following in the footsteps, your mom and dad. It doesn't become very adaptive.



Debra Maldonado 03:38

Well, it kind of is where you live this life of least least change like it's the lowest form like you're just basically in survival mind. And you're, you know, I went to my high school reunion a couple years ago, I won't tell you which one, and there were so many people that were still living in the same small town, doing the same thing. They were still playing out the same personas they had in high school, like the burnout or the cheerleader, and it was like, married the football player and you're just like, Did you like leave this town ever, like, explore the world? And and so there's people that like that conformity. And conformity is really one of the necessary like you said stages of the ego is we need to fit in to survive initially. So in a family if we were, if we didn't conform, we may you know, that there's a being kicked out of the family or the curve black sheep. Yeah. And there's, this happens with religions, you know, you conform to the religion, the rules of the household, the rules of society. And then a lot of people just stay in that realm. I see. Sometimes people will conform to, I'm going to have a marriage just like my mother or father had a marriage and I'm going to act out the same patterns. Because it was it was good, it was good. It worked and so They never challenge anything. They kind of have the same life. The previous generation had made the same money the previous generation had. And sometimes even in family businesses. They have the same bit they're in the same career and they never really individually they never really question Who am I? It's I am what everyone else says. They told me I was. And so that conformity stage in the beginning wallets very powerful, can also lead to a lot of boredom and even like this quiet desperation to talk about something is wrong. There's something not fitting.



Robert Maldonado 05:37

Yeah, I mean, and you can see it in the corporation then the job the company becomes the surrogate family in essence.



Debra Maldonado 05:50

Because that Father?



05:51

Yeah, they go from being a conformist in the family, to being a conformist in the workplace, and just kind of follow the assembly line.



Debra Maldonado 06:02

So it's sort of like you go, you leave your family, you go to school and you learn and you conform to the rules of the school and what makes you smart and what makes you succeed. And then they prepare you for the business world, which the business world has its own hierarchy. And there's still the kind of cliques and you know, it's kind of playing out the same dynamics, the parents and the jealous sister and all those things. And we're still in that same rut and, and so I find a lot of times when people want to, you know, they have that ache to start their own career. They're so afraid to leave that conformity that and then everyone around them, it will tell them, Oh, you don't want to do any, you have a great job. You have this, you know, set life like why would you give up your career for something like that? And so that's conformity. Do you want to move to the next one? Okay.



Robert Maldonado 06:54

I don't know how I was just gonna say we're talking psychologically here. Although it does play out in this a social ways. But not always people can be nonconformist in corporate settings. And play in those fields. But we're talking about kind of that psychological conformity of just kind of going along with the flow without having your own ideas.



Debra Maldonado 07:25

Yes.



Robert Maldonado 07:26

And for women, I think it's an important time in history because you are free to, to create in in the way men have been free to create for a long time. But men also fall into that conformity pattern, of course. So it's not just social, political, but it's it is psychological, psychological and emotional.



Debra Maldonado 07:53

Well, actually, I think men actually may conform even more because they're there. The weight is on them. In, you know, traditional families is to carry the load for the family and be the financial support. So the father archetype will be I got it, I got to just be responsible. And so you that responsibility is a sign of that conformity stage is that you feel I have to be responsible, I can't, you know, make any waves and we stay in that conformed place. And I remember when I was younger, you know, that's all I wanted to do when I was in high school is to have the life my mother had, you know, I want to have kids and I want to have family and you were a conformist. I was a conformist. I really just wanted a part of me, you know, when it to do, like you said, it's psychological. So part of me had this kind of, I want something more, but the forces around me told me, you know, almost as if the hypnotizing me to think this is all you can have, this is your role, this is what you should do. And even though we have dreams, so it doesn't mean the conformist is happy about It it's almost like the conformist is is thinking. The other option is is death or dangerous?



Robert Maldonado 09:08

Yeah. And well, we'll talk more about what what these paths lead to down the line. So let's go to the second one and because I was born a rebel I, you know from the get go I wanted to do things in a different way. But but that has its pitfalls too. So, let's say rebelling against the parents, against the family against the society, the culture. It is part of individuation because you have to be able to break away from that bubble.



Debra Maldonado 09:47

You can't go conformity to individuation you have to have this rebellious stage.



Robert Maldonado 09:52

You have to undergo that breaking away, cutting the umbilical cord emotionally, psychologically, and again, it's not a physical thing. You know, a lot of people think, oh, if I move away, or if I join the army or do something that will cut the cord. But no, it's a psychological emotional one. And people can be very much in conformity again, because those institutions take the place of the, of the family. 



Debra Maldonado 10:23

So you could move 1000 miles away from your family, and still be conforming because you're psychologically still in buying into the assumptions that the family gave you of what how the world works. And who you are and what your your your state statuses and worth is and all those things.



Robert Maldonado 10:42

Yeah, who you are is a key, right? You in breaking away and rebelling? You're trying to find yourself? Yes. You're you're trying to define yourself.



Debra Maldonado 10:53

Is that why teenagers are really at that they kind of get to that rebellion stage where they're trying to break away from the parents because they want to, they just it's just kind of a natural stage. 



Robert Maldonado 11:05

Yes, but that was a funny South Park episode where the gods you know, they were all wearing black and and the kid wanted to join them, but they wouldn't let him join unless he wore black.



Debra Maldonado 11:20

And then he said, Is that me conforming?



Robert Maldonado 11:23

Exactly. Yeah. So you you have to kind of watch that again. Again, it's not just a social external thing. Is the Is it a real psychological break for the individual?



Debra Maldonado 11:36

So that's actually a sore point because you're because you're conforming to a new group maybe but you're still in that rebellious stage but still conforming to a new group of like you said the Goths.



Robert Maldonado 11:51

Nothing against goth culture.



Debra Maldonado 11:52

No we love. I love it. Yeah. So the rebellion stage when does that kick in for someone? It depends on the person psychologically when that happens.



Robert Maldonado 12:06

Yeah, I mean, if we're talking about individuation, I think it hits people around 35. No, after 35 you start to get serious about, oh, this is this is for real. I'm gonna have to do something with my life. And, and the question is, how are you going to do it? Are you going to follow the rules or break the rules? Rebel?



Debra Maldonado 12:34

Well, I, you know, I see rebellion in a way. Sometimes people like what we noticed, when we were talking about the mother archetype or the father imago. There were two, you know, people that hated their fathers or hated their mothers. And they're kind of wanting to rebel from that place. Is that the same kind of rebellion or is that more a different because psychologically, they want to reject the parent automatically.



Robert Maldonado 12:59

Yeah, I think I think it is a stage of you have to reject what's been handed down to you. 



Debra Maldonado 13:10

So in other words, someone who has rejected like the parent itself is better off than someone who loves their parent and thinks their parents the guide. 



Robert Maldonado 13:20

Well, you're not rejecting, let's say the love of the parent, or the connection you have with the parents, but you're rejecting their values.



Debra Maldonado 13:32

But some people are rejecting like they're cutting people off. 



Robert Maldonado 13:35

Yeah, that's one of the pitfalls. Yeah, don't carry a stage right? That people then because they fall into the projection. They think it's my parents that are holding me back. Yes, but it's not the parents it's your psychology basically. Then you're caught up in in this adaptive conformity principle. Because it, it's helping you survive. That's what you're breaking away from.



Debra Maldonado 14:06

But you're thinking that the people that created that conformity are the patterns in your life, their victimhood or the blame or the, you know, patterns of, you know, terrible relationships. They're all caused by the family, or the mother, if she didn't love me enough for you know, whether a father abandoned me or didn't give me enough love or hurt me in some way that we're really in rebellious stage, we could be just rebelling against that person, in a way giving them power. Still, because even we're just being anti nonconformist, which is still an aspect of conformity because we're actually saying that that conformity that I had to use to survive, now I want to reject it all. But I think you need to come to terms with that. You're kind of like it's two sides of the same coin is What I how I see it is that as long as you keep hating the people, or think you can cut people off and move on, you're still living with them in your mind in your psyche of still rebelling in a way with them.



Robert Maldonado 15:13

You're very much caught up still, right? Because you're it's either accepting what society is giving you as values and as kind of prefabricated humanity. Or you're saying, No, I don't want any of that. But in rejecting it, of course, you there they got you, in a sense, because now you're reacting against it. 



Debra Maldonado 15:37

Yes, that's what I was saying that, like you're still hooked into that, like you're trying to hold on to conformity and push it away at the same time. So that's where I think a lot of people feel stuck because they want to move on with their life. They want to individually they want to create their own path. They want to leave the past behind, but psychologically, they still keep hanging on to that kind of pain or that judgments are that anger against the parent or the person that suppress them or hurt them in some way? Yeah. And you see that it's part of the culture also, right? The idea that our parents screwed us up is prevalent or that we have to forgive them based on the forgiveness idea cuz I have this like, opinion of forgiveness is like, you're really saying that you had the power to hurt me. And now I'm saying I forgive you for that power to hurt me. And so you're actually still in forgiveness, giving that other person power. And I know it's it's higher level than holding on to anger, but you're still kind of insinuating in a way I'm a better person because I'm going to forgive you and the ego can use that technique of forgiveness in a very kind of a you still wronged me way. And so I think true forgiveness is, you know, we're all trying our best here. You acted it wrong conditioning from your past, and it's I'm letting go completely of that you did me wrong. And that is actually greater forgiveness as you didn't mean no harm because I am the true self. Well, yeah, it's a stretch to get there. But the rebellious stage is that kind of still, you're still fighting your parents from or the people that hurt you in the past?



Robert Maldonado 17:19

Yeah, what I've noticed is in individuation, especially for women, at the center of it is the relationship with a mother. And of course, the rebellion is often against the mother. But when when it's mistaking, mistaken as physical mother, meaning that I have to break away from my actual mother, then the woman is cut off from her femininity, wasn't there?



Debra Maldonado 17:52

Yeah, Jung quote.



Robert Maldonado 17:53

Jung quote, about that?



Debra Maldonado 17:55

Yeah, he said that a woman can survive and pretty much function if she cuts away from The father because she rejects the father because she's a woman. So she could still be a full woman in a sense in her life. But when she cuts away the mother, she's basically cutting away at our own femininity at our own feminine power. And that is actually can be very destructive. And in a way you're kind of hating yourself because the mother, if you're a woman, the mother's a projection of your own mother archetype. And so a lot of times I think the biggest lesson to learn is that we're not we're projecting we're in this world and what we're seeing as a projection of the assumptions that happened to us now Yes, real things happened. Real her harm, maybe have happened to you maybe had a rough childhood, but what you're carrying with you is not that harm anymore. is more the what you believed about it. And you have the power to choose differently and to identify differently. You're not the little girl anymore. That little girl is no longer here. The parents They hurt you is no longer here, even if she's still living. That woman that was your mother at 20 years old is not that person anymore. She could have the same patterns, but that person no longer exists. It's almost like a dream. And so we start to look at it that way we can start to feel a little lighter that for me, I spent so many years trying to repair the past repair of the past, heal my wounds, period, the past, forgive my Father forgive my father. And when I realized, you know what, it's my misperception that I didn't even notice all the great things he did for me and I just rejected all of him. And when I was able to stop that rebellion against him and truly love him and see, you know, he wasn't perfect, but he always did the best he could and not in a like whitewashing way where I'm gonna ignore my feelings, but it was more like now I'm seeing things from a different perspective. And do I, I could see who I am. Now who I really am. I'm not defined by that in the past. And when I truly got to see that, I will was the one who actually was pushing men away and pushing him away, that he wasn't this cold, evil man, it was me being afraid, my fear that every all the power came back. And so that rebellion stage was, I thought maybe I needed to do that. But I also needed to have, like you said that resolution and the resolution is what led to the transformation, not the rebellion. So the rebellion is the first stage and I think a lot of people get stuck in, they're either in conformity and trying to break free, or they're stuck in that rebellion stage for years and years and years and years. Because people are telling them they have to forgive their parents and they have to, you know, relive the past and regress and find out all the things that are is broken about them to repair and you're still in that kind of trying to fix something that happened to you still using the past as a way to kind of push away who you are.



Robert Maldonado 20:56

Yeah. So how to, let's say Don't want to assume right because women let's say individuation for women is such a unique process and young didn't really write that much about it. What do you think? I mean, what is the way to move from that rebellious stage? Which is essential people, women do need to rebel. But how do they resolve the conflict?



Debra Maldonado 21:27

Well, for me I had to see that the conflict that I created especially what my father first of all was my own doing my own.



Robert Maldonado 21:37

Your internalized



Debra Maldonado 21:38

My like assumptions and stories about and my fear that prevented me from connecting with him like really having a better relationship with him. I always thought he was cold and distant. But then I realized oh, wait, that's my projection because I'm and he definitely had those traits. But I couldn't I had those traits to is almost like I was seeing myself And I didn't recognize it. And so kind of taking the power back and saying, Wait a minute, I'm the one who's when he comes in the room, I'm the one who shuts down. He's not the one who, you know, maybe I shut down because he shuts down, but I'm doing it too. So it's like really understanding that he's just like me. And there was something about that, that changed. For me and, and with my mom to like, just accepting that she's who she is, and her nurturing loving side that I always thought was so profound, it's so great to see how it actually can hurt me and lead me to over pleasing and giving too much and not standing up for myself. So all these things that I labeled as my mother was all good and my father was all bad. I start to see that there's the I have both of them in me. And that it's what I do with that verse. It's integration, of accepting that that part of myself as a human, but also know there's this other me that's divine, that is not caught up in all that. So those are just my ego. conditioning patterns. And that is something much more. And when I realized that I could create pushing men away, I realized that I can create letting them in. And that's when everything started to change. When I stopped pushing my father away, and rejecting him, rebelling against him, and actually accepting that it was me, all of a sudden, everything changed. It was like, rebellion, to me is a stage where you're trying to get power, but you're still using the conformity to push away. And for resolution is actually just saying, all the stuff that happened to me in the past does not define me. Jung says, I'm not what happened to me. I choose to be whoever I want to be or to choose to become who I want to be. And that's the resolution is that no matter what happened in the horrible, horrible past, I still can choose and that is really the key. But you can't get go from conformity to to stage three, you have to have that rebellion at first, you have to tease it apart, you have to say, because it's really this step of individuation is okay, I don't like this. So I'm just going to do the opposite. But that doesn't work either. And with those tensions of the opposites, there's a transformation that happens. That's transcendence of the two. He called it the transcendent function. When two opposites come together, and integrate, we start to really see that we can choose and so there's times I can be kind, there's times I can be a little aloof if I need to. I have the power to withdraw. I don't need to always look get love all the time. And all the wonderful gifts that our parents did teach us and even if it's one thing that positive that your parents did, if you hate your mother, she gave you life. That's one positive thing, even if that's all you take with you. That would be a beautiful thing. What about you? I think yeah, the the rebel. stages, has those pitfalls. You're thinking you're seeing reality. And so you think, well, I'm just gonna have to live this way all the time, right? Rebelling against society trying to do it or outsmart it or get away from it somehow, or, you know, come to peaceful terms with it somehow. The individuation is that internal process of realizing that it's you you're working with or you're fighting against. So it is accepting responsibility for your own life. Instead of projecting it outward and saying, you know, they're the bad people. Anytime you feel someone is bad that you need to push away. You're giving them power. Yeah. So whatever you resist is something that you were threatened and you find a threat. And so whatever you're afraid of is going to drive your life. And so that's why, you know, whether it's an emotion that you don't want to feel, or a person you don't want to be around. Have you ever gone into a room and you know, like a family gathering? We don't do that much now. But you go on a family gathering and there's that one relative that, you know, kind of always triggers you. And it's like, you want to avoid them, that you're giving that person power. Or if you gossip about someone, you're always like, Ooh, this one you love, like you feel this fuel of gossip? I think women do that more than men. I don't know if men gossip as much as women. A little bit different ways, I think, but it's still kind of the same principle. It's that kind of that girl, that rebellion of that person and then you're really just seeing your shadow but you're projecting and you're giving that person power instead of that person irritates me, what does that say about me and how can I work with myself? And so I think the rebellious stage you start off rebelling. And then you, there's a stage where you stop rebelling. Or you start to say, well, the battle really is within me, the changes within me know, the conflict is within me. It's not, I'm not fighting my parents anymore. And actually, if you think about when we always talk about archetypes, and the power of the mother and the father archetype, that they were born with it, and then we project this power onto our parents, and then it's really about reclaiming the divine masculine, divine feminine in us. And as long as we're rebelling against our parents or think they did us wrong, part of our spiritual powers given to them, and we're, we feel powerless. We feel like they should suffer. They are terrible people and they need to, you know, beg for my forgiveness, or I need to just shut them out of my life. It's like, I don't have to give it power anymore.



Robert Maldonado 27:56

I know you wanted to keep it brief. Yeah. Do you want to take some questions?



Debra Maldonado 28:02

Sure. Uh, do you have any other before we have a question? Do you have anything else to say about the resolution stage where someone can get to that resolution? How do they move from? How do they recognize what stage they're in? I'd like to talk about that first before we get to questions. So the first stage, I'd say, what would be a sign that you're in conformity?



Robert Maldonado 28:27

Like you said, you probably still living in your parents basement. This psychological Yeah, yeah. Right. psychologically. You're still



Debra Maldonado 28:37

You still have your room and your parents house like you were when you were 12.



Robert Maldonado 28:40

Tied to your mother's apron. Yeah. Especially for men.



Debra Maldonado 28:44

Asking parents for advice all the time. Yeah. borrowing money from them, like staying financially tied to them.



Robert Maldonado 28:53

Absolutely. And in a set, in a sense, there's nothing wrong with it, but you want to understand that There's stages of growth that you need to go through. Right? We don't want to just say, Well, I'm stuck here. No, the the whole idea is that there there is a way to proceed no matter where, what stage you're at.



Debra Maldonado 29:15

So do you think it's actually a benefit that your parents were irritated you a bit, even a little extent because if they're too good, like those people that want The Brady Bunch family, they kind of never get to the rebellious stage and they never get to grow. They kind of it's like a cocoon little bubble that they stay in. Right. So we have to embrace those adversities that show up and the the kind of the some of the tough times we've had with our family and our early life.



Robert Maldonado 29:43

Yeah. And in the rebellious stage. You probably still living your college years.



Debra Maldonado 29:49

Ah, yes, the party, the lover type.



Robert Maldonado 29:53

Yes. You're still trying to be a nonconformist means you're so caught up in it, you're defining yourself by what you're not. And that is essentially defining yourself by your past.



Debra Maldonado 30:09

Is it like a responsibility in a way you're like not taking responsibility? You're kind of saying you're pushing blame or rebelling against the system or something and, but not like feeling it's their fault, or they have seen no feeling. It's their fault. Not feeling powerful. And that's right. Like I'm choosing to leave. It's more like they're mad. I'm mad at them. I gotta leave.



Robert Maldonado 30:34

Yeah. Yeah. And so you're caught up still, you're still tied to even though you're pushing away. You're tied to that past.



Debra Maldonado 30:46

So and talking about it a lot and referring to it and when you process like something that struggle struggle that happens in your life, you think, well, I'm this way because my father did this to me or my mother was very critical. So I tend to be critical. Like you still, like blame your parents for why you're the way you are versus saying, you know, yeah, that happened, but I could choose. I'm not trapped by it. So the rebellion still has you a little trapped.



Robert Maldonado 31:14

Yes. And it's not always. Let's say, it's not always about the father and the mother because it will play out in work. Oh, yeah, you will simply then find bosses or companies or situations where you're the rebel again, yeah, you're the outsider, you're instigating, change, but you find it impossible to to change because of the oppression.



Debra Maldonado 31:40

It's almost like you're still conflicted. Have you the desire to conform and the desire to be free? Because there's an aspect of you because the shadow of the rebel is conformity. So you're still you're still an ego. You're just like that conformity is still there. That I'm in this job. I hate my boss. He's just like my friend. Father just like my mother, or she's just like my mother.



Robert Maldonado 32:04

Well the danger is that you won't even make that association. You'll just think it's terrible. I just happened to find this terrible boss or fall into this position. When in reality, those patterns we we unconsciously seek them out.



Debra Maldonado 32:22

I now have terrible bosses over and over again, suppressive men and I was I never saw the connection. Like, and then me, but the connection was my assumption of who I was. So remember, these things aren't your parents didn't do this to you. It's like you're carrying with you. The assumption of who you decided you were, what identity you decided, because of what happened to you, that you're saying, Well, I'm just not good enough or I never get what I want or I'm the, you know, you know, I'm always so nice and everyone takes advantage of me. Whatever role you decided, you're still you're still caught up. And so then the resolution is you use is really retrieving the projection i think is the first step is to say that every irritating person or the anger I have toward are the things I'm rebelling against is to see that they're inside me. There's this I'm seeing something I'm fighting within myself. It's an internal battle, not an external. And I think in the first two stages, it's very much externalized where people are trying to find their freedom, but doing it by action or behavior. They even like say, I'm gonna leave the corporate world to start my own business, but they're still rebelling, and they're not doing it because of something they love. Like I see a lot of people, you know, want to start their own business and because they hate the corporate world, but not because and so their business becomes just like they hate it too. Because there's something else it's like, they're just not falling in love with it. They're doing it for rebellion versus doing it to their purpose.



Robert Maldonado 33:58

Yeah, then your job was Let's say your business then will become your prison. Yes. And it will become the overbearing boss.



Debra Maldonado 34:06

Yes, you'll be your own boss. Yeah. And feel like you haven't done enough.



Robert Maldonado 34:11

So in the in the resolution stage, you're acting out of real Free Will a real choice not out of pushing something away, but out of creating something new. Yeah, that's the individuation process.



Debra Maldonado 34:27

And that is like finding who you are and defining who you are on your own terms and not your persona, but understanding this deeper soul within you that that has human patterns and emotions, but they don't define you anymore. Yeah. So great and stop looking externally for that validation and approval and all the things that we're rebelling against because you don't like me, I'm going to rebel. We have to kind of go inside and be our own internal authority in our life and that's what changes everything. And that's where the resolution happens. And then the other people are free to that they're not you're not projecting all that guilt and shame onto other people for what they did to you, you can actually just be via peace Finally, it's like let the let the dead be dead or like let the dead bury the dead you just let it go and you can truly let it go and have a life that's free. The Shadow Work is the key I mean, that that's where they're you know you to get you out of rebellion stage you have to do Shadow Work, you can't just skip over and abandon everything and say I hate you know, I'm going to leave the past behind and I'm just going to become spiritual. You have to come to terms with like wrestle with that stuff. This stuff that you kind of created up until now you have to kind of come to realize you can't just like get rid of it. You have to really use it for your growth.



Robert Maldonado 35:53

It's the all the fertilizer we we carry around.



Debra Maldonado 35:58

Yeah, I kept feel like I was doing a So much of getting rid of that my past and clearing and you know, just I want to just get beyond it. And and it was actually facing it and looking at it and seeing it from a higher perspective that changed everything. And so now my father could have did what he did in my childhood and been the way he was. But it's like that pain or that ache isn't there anymore because I'm not seeing it from a different perspective.



Robert Maldonado 36:24

Well, awesome. You stayed on time.



Debra Maldonado 36:26

Yes. Thank you, everyone for all your questions and sharing. Really appreciate it. And we'll be here next week. Next week, we're talking about the power conflict. What does it mean to you know, how can we use conflict in a way that empowers us versus trying to avoid it all the time, or when we have conflict to feel like we're doing something wrong, so we're gonna flip the switch on conflict, and you guys are gonna want to wrestle up and be belt rebellious, next week. But thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you soon. Namaste. Take care. Remember, you're awesome!