A recent study showed that 62% of Americans are thinking about changing careers since the pandemic hit. Are you one of them? In this session we discuss what it means to live your purpose.
Interact with us LIVE in our Creative Mind Coaching Group.
A recent study showed that 62% of Americans are thinking about changing careers since the pandemic hit. Are you one of them? In this session we discuss what it means to live your purpose.
Interact with us LIVE in our Creative Mind Coaching Group.
What is Dharma?
Debra Maldonado, Robert Maldonado
Welcome to Creative Mind Soul Sessions with Debra Maldonado and Dr. Rob Maldonado, founders of Creative Mind, explore personal growth with us through Jungian psychology, Eastern spirituality, and social neuroscience in a deep, practical way. Let's begin.
Debra Maldonado 00:20
Hello, everyone. Welcome to our soul session today.
Robert Maldonado 00:25
Yeah, today we're talking about Dharma.
Debra Maldonado 00:27
Dharma. And we had... This series is all this spiritual, higher knowledge that we're sharing. We had what is the true self. Last week, we talked about karma. And now we're talking about Dharma. And I remember that show back in the 90s, Dharma and Greg. So, it's not about that show. But let's talk about what is Dharma so we can clarify because there's a Buddhist idea of Dharma and then the Vedanta idea of Dharma.
Robert Maldonado 01:00
Yeah. They're very much related because Buddhism grew out of the Upanishads, that whole tradition of the Vedas. But in Buddhism, essentially, Dharma means the teachings of the Buddha, the way to do that transformation to Nirvana.
Debra Maldonado 01:28
The Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha are the three.
Robert Maldonado 01:32
That's right. But in the original Sanskrit, it simply means... Well, not simply because it has a lot of rich meaning to it. But it's used primarily to denote sacred duty. It is also understood as a personal Dharma, as a way of transformation - your own path, finding your own path in this world.
Debra Maldonado 02:01
Path of liberation?
Robert Maldonado 02:02
The path to self-realization, meaning how do you realize your true nature, who you really are, not just the persona, as Jung would say, but who is the one that is observing all this incredible thing that is going on in life. And that self within us, essentially, our aim, the aim of human life, is to realize what we are.
Debra Maldonado 02:34
Well, I would say, in layman's terms, the Dharma is acting out of our true nature and discovering what that is.
Robert Maldonado 02:44
Debra Maldonado 02:45
Now you have a great story. Well, it's not your story, but you always tell the story of Arjuna and Krishna in the Gita. And it's a really great story that reflects what Dharma is.
Robert Maldonado 03:01
Yeah. Yeah, I think it gets at the root of what it's talking about in story form, which is really one of the brilliance of some of the Indian epics. And the Gita itself is one chapter of a much richer story called the Mahabharata, which is the story of Bharat, the king Barak, and the family lineage and struggles. But the Gita is one chapter within that story. But if you look before the Gita, before the battle takes place, there's a scene in the Mahabharata where Krishna and the warring party, one of his cousins, go to... I'm sorry, Arjuna and the warring party, they go to Krishna because he's related to both sides. He's like the grand cousin or the grand uncle, and they want his advice. And they want to see who he's supporting, essentially, which side he's on, whether he's on Arjuna's side and his brothers or on the opposing side. And when they get there, they both get there at the same time, and Krishna is taking a nap. And then when he opens his eyes, his eyes fall on Arjuna. And so he says, You get first pick. On one side, you get my armies ready to fight, obedient to your generals, and to anything you wish to do with the army. And on the other side, you get me but I will not participate in the battle. And Arjuna without thinking, without hesitating, he says, I choose you. I choose you.
Debra Maldonado 05:01
Meaning the higher ground.
Robert Maldonado 05:06
Meaning, he chooses the divine over material force.
Debra Maldonado 05:13
Robert Maldonado 05:14
Yes. And the opposing side is very happy with the results because...
Debra Maldonado 05:18
They're like, Ooh, we get the army!
Robert Maldonado 05:20
That's right. But there you see the question that befalls all of us.
Debra Maldonado 05:25
Robert Maldonado 05:26
What are we going to do with our life? Am I going to follow the path of materialism?
Debra Maldonado 05:32
And battling the external forces and trying to conquer and getting power in material ways?
Robert Maldonado 05:39
That's right. Or am I going to find a way to relate to that deeper self in us?
Debra Maldonado 05:46
And so, that's a great way to think about Dharma. And I remember when I was... Just there's so much teachings on living your purpose. I think, right now, a lot of people are asking themselves, What do I want to do with my life? Here I am, I'm probably still in lockdown in some cities, or I'm not going out as much. And I'm kind of spending a lot of time at home, maybe working from home and questioning... I think it's making everyone slow down and say, What is really... What do I really want to do with my life? And so, a lot of people mistake what your purpose is thinking that it in work, it's something you do as work like, I'm a doctor, or I'm a lawyer, or I'm a coach. And if I become a coach, then I'm going to be living my purpose. And in a way it's following, but you have to follow your Dharma, which is not the material success. But your work needs to fulfill a higher purpose. And that purpose is what Jung talks about, is individuation is to realize the self, realize the choice that Krishna gave Arjuna, which is do you choose me, or you do choose the paycheck and conquering people and being better than everyone else, and having this... Some people want to become famous and beat their enemies and all those things, competition. And so, when we think about that ancient story, we have to look at how does that apply to our modern life right now and the choices we're making.
Robert Maldonado 07:31
Yeah, because work is one of those developmental questions. And by development I mean, our whole life. We're always going through these stages and transitions. But it's one of those big questions that all humans have to ask - What am I going to do with my time, my energy, my work? What is my work? What is my purpose? And what is the meaning of my life? And work is integrated, intricately tied to that because the way we work and what we do is the way we find meaning in our life.
Debra Maldonado 08:10
That's really important because I think what most people don't want at the end of the day is, or the end of their life, is to say, Wow, I accumulated a lot of comforts and material success and had money in the bank to pass onto my children. But does it have meaning? And a lot of our clients will say to us, what is your real desire? And it's that meaningful relationships, meaningful work. And that is the key. It has to have meaning.
Robert Maldonado 08:39
Yeah, that's right. And so, what we found in Jung, for example, was that he has a psychology that addresses those spiritual questions but, from a psychological perspective. So, the psychology of your Dharma, of your personal Dharma, of finding what is your work, it's that that understanding is important.
Debra Maldonado 09:09
Even asking that question.
Robert Maldonado 09:11
Debra Maldonado 09:12
What am I supposed to be doing with my life, is probably the most powerful question you can ask yourself. Yes, it's the beginning of your journey.
Robert Maldonado 09:18
Yes, that's right. And a lot of people think, Well, isn't it a profession? Because they see, Okay, what are you guys doing? You're a psychologist or you're a hypnotherapist or you're a coach, you're a teacher. Is that kind of your Dharma? And it's yes and no. It's not a particular career. A lot of people mistake. They think that, If I find the career, then I'll find my Dharma. But it's not really what you do. It's not really the particular work or particular profession that you follow. It's how you do it.
Debra Maldonado 09:57
So it's not the act you perform but it's how you act.
Robert Maldonado 10:01
That's right. How you act and what you put into that work.
Debra Maldonado 10:06
And that action, right. So, there's people that want to help others and they genuinely want to be coaches and therapists. But then it turns into a job. It turns into, How do I make a living out of this? Which we all need to make a living if we're doing what we love. But I think we forget that that's not the goal. And so, we get into these... I know when I first started, I was like, Oh, I'm a hypnotherapist! I could do what I love! And then it turned out to be this, How do I survive, and getting paid and all these things that came up. But what I realized is that it's through the process of facing those challenges of building a business and trying new things and stretching myself, the real prize wasn't that, Ooh, I made this amount of money or got a book published, or all those material things. The real prize is I found out more about myself. And when I stepped out of the corporate world, the first thought I had in my mind was, I don't know if I can do this. But I want to try because I want to see what I'm made of. And I want to see what is inside of me that I can pull out that hasn't been expressed in the other parts of life. That I believe is the Dharma. It's not about how to survive and go from one corporate job to another job or career that's going to replace that income, but something that's more meaningful. Now, I'm not saying that you forget about the money and all those things, but it's the way you approach it and the priority you put on. Is it about the money? Or is it about me living my purpose?
Robert Maldonado 11:47
Yes. And I think we can give a general definition of the generic purpose, let's say, the purpose for all of us as human beings. Like Jung says, it appears that human beings are here to witness the creation. That's a part of our purpose. And in the Upanishads, what it says is that our purpose is to realize the self. That's our purpose for all of us as human beings. It's that our work then is a way of purifying ourselves continuously by work to reveal to ourselves who we really are. And as long as we're doing that, it doesn't matter what we do, because I could be a gardener, I could be a psychologist, I could be a professor. But if I'm doing that purpose of using that action to realize myself, realize the true self in me, then I'm doing my Dharma.
Debra Maldonado 12:56
And for me, I just felt like it was a success in itself just by going for it just by, like we talk about, going all in. I have a passion for something, I'm going to go all in. And when we train coaches, and we always tell them when they first start their business, is use the process of building your business as a way toward individuation versus don't use the process of creating your business to make money. That's great, but use that desire to create money, create success, and that material success. And make the higher purpose so I can know myself in all ways, so I can understand myself, so I can be more empowered, so I can leave the ego behind and start to really let my real true self express herself and in powerful ways. And I think that if we put that as our top priority, imagine the impact we would have on the world. I see a lot of people, they want to make change in the world. There's a lot of people passionate right now about changing the world and what can they do. And the best thing you can do is make the most of yourself to understand yourself, because then you're having that ripple effect of, Oh, it doesn't have to be so desperate and scary to live your purpose. You can do it with grace, and you really up-level the messaging and the authenticity of living your purpose.
Robert Maldonado 14:28
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, in Jungian terms, what you're describing is going from the persona, identifying or over-identifying with the persona and ego, to shifting the focus of consciousness to the self, to your inner self, instead of believing that as long as it appears that I'm doing this thing out here, and people see me as successful., then I'm okay or that's the best I can do.
Debra Maldonado 15:03
And excess pressure.
Robert Maldonado 15:04
Yeah, while inside, they might be very dissatisfied with what they're doing or they know they want to do something else. There's a calling in them to do something bigger. And really, the greatest joy in life is to express the completeness of yourself. Everything you feel and you know you have in you to fully express that.
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Debra Maldonado 16:00
Well, I love this term that Jung uses, when he talks about the persona, we get molded into, from early in life, to be a part of our family, and what's appropriate, and we forget who we are. And we feel like we have to do, be and act certain ways to cope with the world. And the world is big and powerful and we're just a part of that peg in the wheel, and we just have to do what we have to do. And in that, we have to let go or repress or deny other parts of ourselves, which he calls the shadow. And I love the term how he describes as shadow because other people think the shadow is all their negative thoughts or something negative about us, or evil inclinations, which of course, there's some of those in the shadow too. But what really is in the shadow is our unlived self. So, it's this other half of us that never got to express herself through us because the persona won't allow her. So, when I was a little girl, I was very shy. And I was this...
Robert Maldonado 17:03
You were shy?
Debra Maldonado 17:04
I know! And I feel though I'm an introvert by nature. And I feel that stepping into this role as a coach and going on TV and writing a book, I let this other aspect of myself that I felt was too scary to put out there, have her lived through me. And it's not that, Oh, she now gets all this attention and she's so famous or whatever. It's more, I feel more complete instead of... Because we all have this. And most of us don't know what is in our shadow. We don't know what our unlived self is. We've never asked the question, Am I really supposed to be doing this with my life? Am I really satisfied? And that unlived self is hiding back there going, knocking on the door like in a soundproof cage going, Let me out! And so, when we ask that question, What should I do with my life, it's an invitation for this other part of us to come forward. And that process is what brings us meaning in life, not what we do with that stuff. So, whether we're a millionaire, or we just make enough, that's all that matters. It's that we allow that part of us to be expressed. That will give us more meaning than keeping up this persona and not being embarrassed because we failed. What's going to give us meaning is, You know what, I failed, but I put it out there and I had wrestled with it. And it's okay. It doesn't matter if you win or lose. It's how you play the game, they say. And this life is very short. It goes by so fast. And every day you're not living with meaning is a day lost that you will never get back. Ever. You cannot get it back. So, it needs to be an urgency, don't you think?
Robert Maldonado 18:50
Yeah. When I was doing my clinical work, a lot of the people that showed up with depression, severe anxiety problems, phobias, it was a question of meaning. And then they had lost that thread of what is the meaning of my life? What am I doing with my time? I can't seem to find the satisfaction in things. And so, I was thinking in terms of people reach these lethal levels of meaninglessness and that.
Debra Maldonado 19:21
Yes. And it can go to depression, right?
Robert Maldonado 19:25
Absolutely. Because as human beings we need that. We need meaning. And we create it from the inside out. And a lot of people might think, Well, if we're creating it, is that valid?
Debra Maldonado 19:42
That's great. Yeah.
Robert Maldonado 19:44
But in essence, that's the purpose of our life - to create our own meaning and to find it or to find a way to create it, and express that meaning. And that's the ultimate for human experience because, again, it's not what you do when how successful you appear to be externally, but is that is there that satisfaction in you, that you know you're doing what you're meant to be doing. And when you find it, then you find you're centered in the life, in your own life.
Debra Maldonado 20:19
Every day it feels great!
Robert Maldonado 20:200
You are where you need to be and you're doing what you need to be doing. And that feeling is incredibly satisfying.
Debra Maldonado 20:29
A lot of times, I think, for people like our coaches always ask... I think coaching is the most incredible field you can get into because you can really make it anything and it fits any model. Any interest that you have, you can actually move it into our kind of coaching. It's very individuated. But I remember when I was thinking about what would I want to do, and when I first became a hypnotherapist, I knew I love personal development. And I just kept feeling like, I struggled with love and relationships my whole life. And that was really my first step. I just felt so passionate about wanting to help others alleviate their suffering. And that gave me meaning because it was like all my pain had meaning, that it didn't go to waste. It wasn't just, Oh, that's a waste and I'm going to move on. It's like you're actually taking from that pain is gold that you cultivate. And then you share that wisdom with others. Because there really is that in Buddhism, they say, taking away. Your goal is to relieve the suffering of others. What a great way to live a life. And so how can you contribute? How can you be expressed? And when I wrote my book, I loved, I was passionate about writing. I got to do something that meant something to me, something that I was passionate about, sharing a message. And to this day, that has that ripple effect on people. I mean, it wasn't a New York Times bestseller. But there are people around the world that it's been 10 years, and I still get messages of, Thank you so much for writing that, that changed me, or I met my husband because of what you wrote. And we don't know what the impact is and the meaning it gives to other people from us being... And so, imagine if I held that to myself and I was... or I didn't ever even try to change it, and it's like a lost opportunity. So, life is an opportunity for us. And so, we don't want to make it this meaningless existence. We want to move forward. But why do people... Let me ask you this question, why is it so hard for people? Because it's so important. People do want meaning. People do feel unsatisfied. Why is it so hard for people to step into their Dharma?
Robert Maldonado 22:58
Yeah, because if you think about the first task of our life is to create that persona, that appearance of success and being in the world as a successful human being. And there's nothing wrong with it. But we forget the second task in our life, which is to seek the true self in us. And when people don't have the tools, and don't have the knowledge that they're supposed to be doing something bigger, beyond being, beyond survival in a sense, beyond establishing yourself in the world as a persona, as Jung would say, it's only a mask, it's a role we're playing, it's an important piece of being a human being. But the second task is to seek your spiritual center. And if people don't do that, then they fall into that dissatisfaction. They feel, I've done everything they told me I needed to do...
Debra Maldonado 24:07
I followed the culture's, society...
Robert Maldonado 24:09
I played by the rules and I didn't win. Even if people get money and the house and the cars and all that, they feel that there's an emptiness there. They're missing something. And that something they're missing is that purpose, that true Dharma in them that is calling them to seek out the true self.
Debra Maldonado 24:35
Well, that's for people that aren't aware that they're... and how to get out. But let's talk about the next step. Why is it so hard for someone, like people in this group who are conscious and aware and want to live their purpose, why is it so hard for them to step into it? What's the challenge?
Robert Maldonado 24:56
I think a lot of people feel that they're betraying their past by individuating, by seeking their higher self. here is always that the ego pulls them back to, Who do you think you are to be doing something bigger, to be happy, to seek your spiritual essence? Most say most of the world is focused on if you're making it and you if you have job, you should be grateful and just be content with that.
Debra Maldonado 25:30
Everyone tells you that. You have a good job, why would you leave it?
Robert Maldonado 25:33
That's right. And so, there's always that pull back from others. And it's really our own mind that's pulling us back. The ego wants to fit in, it wants to be part of the group. So, if the people that you live with and you hang around with, or you work with, are at a certain level, your ego will essentially want to be at that level.
Debra Maldonado 25:59
And almost unconsciously. You'll feel that almost you won't even see another opportunity. And then you'll feel that this is as good as it gets, because that's what the groupthink is feeling, like there's no one inspiring. And so, the benefit then of someone being the one that breaks free, she could inspire others to break free as well. And that's why we... That's another part of...
Robert Maldonado 26:25
Yeah, that's the opposite side of the coin is that the best thing we can do for others is to do this work because it not only frees our mind, but it shows others that you can be free also. Whereas when we give in to the ego and say, Well, I'm just going to stay in my comfort zone, or at the groupthink level, we are betraying our true purpose in life. We're betraying that. And we'll feel it. We will feel it up. When I worked in hospitals, I saw a lot of people at the end of their life. And a lot of them had deep regrets about what they did with their time. And it's not a pretty sight to see a human being in regret. They're looking back and they're saying, I wasted so much time, I wasted so much opportunity, because of that fear, because of not wanting to step outside what society expected of me. And so, it's always better to be courageous, to be bold, even to risk failure.
Debra Maldonado 27:45
And failing is temporary. It's not a death sentence. It's you learn more from failure than you will from not taking any action at all.
Robert Maldonado 27:55
That's right, because it will lead you to the path, to your true Dharma, your path with heart, like some say. It's going to lead you to finding who you really are. It's a cliché, in a sense, because all hero stories are essentially around this theme, that the hero has to step outside or outside her path to find that treasure within. But it's true. It's essentially what we are here to do in life.
Debra Maldonado 28:31
So, I want to share a story before we go about... Those of you are in this group because you want to live your purpose, you want to step into something, or maybe you have been trained as a coach, or you have a business already. And you're thinking, I want to make this happen. What I see a lot, and I saw this in myself, is this idea of you're kind of dipping your toe in it, but you're not fully in. And for me, it took me 10 years, from the seat of, I want to change my life, to when I finally left the corporate world for good. Because I would toe dip. I would try something. And you know what happens when you start moving toward what you want? You get a great job opportunity, or all of a sudden, all the problems with your job fall away and it starts to be better. It's just like this... It feels as though you're... I remember for me, I would get like really, Oh, I'm going to change my life! I want to do something else! So, I went to massage school. And then I got this call from my friends.
Robert Maldonado 29:39
I can't see you as a masseuse.
Debra Maldonado 29:40
I know! And I got a call from a friend. he said, Hey, there's a marketing director position open at this new internet startup. And here I was, not making a lot of money, and I was just starting, and living off my savings at the time. I was... I don't think I was engaged at that time. That was the time of my grave illness. And I just thought, You know what, this seems like a good opportunity, I'm going to go back to safety. And I went back. And I stayed there for another two years. Or a year. Another year, I think it was. And then, it was just this always, I'm going to do this now. And then the next time I got laid off from that, that company went under. And then I was like, Okay, I'm going to go to hypnotherapy school, I'm going to do this. I went down to the school, I met with them. And guess what? Hello, I have a job opportunity for you! Went back to the corporate world again. And so, it was like the world... your ego will find... will seek and find a way out of you living your purpose. So, it took me so long. It took me... That was over the span of a couple of years of me knowing I want to do it and then pulling back. Knowing I want to do it and pulling back. So, a lot of people think Wow, Debi, you have such balls that you finally left the corporate world. But it took a lot. And so, those of you who are struggling, thinking, Should I get a job? Should I not? I don't recommend doing what I did. It was cold turkey and start without any income. But it is a tough thing. And so, even knowing all the things that we know about ourselves, and the willingness to grow, and the passion for we want to do, our ego will find... And it's so clever. It'll be so reasonable. It'll be like things aren't so bad right now. And then you get that slipping happen. And then it gets intense again, and then you want to change but then it doesn't happen. And we have to be disciplined in knowing that there's something bigger we need to do. And it will eventually... Eventually, if you plant the seed, it's going to start breaking free. So, what do you think happened with me? Why do you think it took me so long? Is it the ego's resistance?
Robert Maldonado 31:59
From the perspective of the Jungian concept of individuation, I think there's a natural obstacle that you have to face, like a challenge that you have to overcome, to prove that you're ready to handle the bigger adventure that you're going to go on.
Debra Maldonado 32:23
Is that like crossing the threshold?
Robert Maldonado 32:25
Crossing the threshold in the hero's journey, yes. Because if you're not ready for it, it might be a disastrous adventure for you. And so, that initial challenge of can you muster enough courage and enough focus to say, This is who I want to be and nothing's going to stop me, then you're ready. The gates open and you're allowed to pass into that next stage of life. Whereas when you're not ready, the natural resistance in your mind will protect you in a sense. It will stop you from making those big leaps. So, a lot of the work in the beginning, in Jungian psychology is about working with that resistance.
Debra Maldonado 33:18
And the first step is facing your shadow.
Robert Maldonado 33:21
Yes. In essence, the shadow is showing you what you need to integrate and work out and become aware of, so that it prepares you then for the next journey, or for the next stage of the journey.
Debra Maldonado 33:35
Well, I think for me what I thought... And I think there's a lot of talk about quick fixes in the self-help industry. And I was in the mainstream pop, self-help reading all those books - You can heal your life in five minutes! And I just thought, It's shouldn't be this hard, then it must be wrong. And I think a lot of people aren't prepared. Not that it's hard but there is going to be resistance. And I think if I would have known that all this is good... Now, when I get resistance, I'm like, Oh, of course, this is what I need to face. And it's, Bring it on, and let me work through it and let me grow through it. But we have to approach it in the right way. So, if you're feeling resistance now, in your life, it's actually there for you because it's giving you the gold that's going to prepare you for the journey. It's like that resistance builds the muscle for you to go and really persevere. If you didn't prepare, you're not going to be able to make the long run.
Robert Maldonado 34:34
Because it is a type of discipline. And a lot of us grew up with that idea of go with the flow and the path of least resistance, whatever feels good and all that. And when you're very young, perhaps that's okay. But when you're ready to do something, you have to really discipline yourself and say, What is it that I want? And you have to answer those tough questions. And often people seek comfort and security and value that above that higher meaning for their life.
Debra Maldonado 35:14
So, we have a choice whether we're going to create or we're going to choose comfort. And I think Rumi said it beautifully. Not Rumi. Rilke said it beautifully. He wrote this letter to someone about... He was heartbroken over someone. And he said he was separated from his love, and he was at school. And he was telling Rilke, his colleague that he was really down and everything and this is really difficult. And he said, because it's difficult, it's something you should do. And it's not. It doesn't have to be so hard, if you understand that this difficulty is your ego's misperception of what you should be doing. It's tricking your mind. And then if you understand, Oh, this is my mind. The obstacle that I'm seeing out there is really within... That's what we train our coaches to coach others in. And if you've never had a Jungian coaching session, you should get one. Because you're really working with that obstacle as a way to free yourself versus how do I clear my blocks and make everything easy. It's a misunderstanding of what we're really doing. We're really... If you just clear it away, you're just kind of feeding the comfort zone, ego again.
Robert Maldonado 36:31
Debra Maldonado 36:31
It's like a bold... Someone says it's like a bulldozing your way through life, just knock everything down that's in your way. But you really want to take those things that are in your way, and how can I use them on my journey?
Robert Maldonado 36:47
We know from even from neuroscience, the brain needs that push back from life. That's the way it grows. That's the way it stays strong and becomes powerful. Just like our bodies needs resistance to exercise. The mind, the spirit, the psyche within us, it needs that resistance to work with.
Debra Maldonado 37:11
It helps us... It brings meaning to our purpose, our life. Because if everything was easy, if you could just put a website up and make a million dollars, and there was no pain at all and struggle in that, what did you learn? How does that have meaning to you? It's like winning the lottery. That's a really good example, is that people that win the lottery, they get the money, and then they realize, What? This isn't making me happy. And so, what are we trying to do here? Are we trying to gather as much stuff out in the world that people and everyone like us, and all these things the ego wants, chasing the material? Or do we want the path that Krishna offers, which is the divine, that there's a bigger purpose for us? And I believe that every person has a unique gift that they were given to express, and that the divine wants us, or God, whatever we prefer to call it, this spirit within us, wants to express itself in many, many ways. And then we're robbing it of that gift. We're robbing the world of the gift and we're robbing the divine of that expression. So, it's our duty, that what you said, is that sacred duty, to really be who we're meant to be. And we're not meant to be a little ego that's hiding and counting our pennies in the bank and making sure we just managed to get through life and hang on by the white knuckle of life that takes us on this road. We want to ride it, we want to face it, we want to live greatly.
Robert Maldonado 38:53
Yes, that's right.
Debra Maldonado 38:56
So, if you're thinking about what you... I guess a great question to end with is, do you feel that you're fully expressed right now? Do you feel that your life has meaning? And do you feel this desire? Is there any unfulfilled desires that you haven't taken a step toward? And if there are, we invite you to do that today. Do take a step toward that desire. And the pushback is going to be there. But that's where the goal is. That's where you really discover who you are.
Robert Maldonado 39:38
Debra Maldonado 38:39
And meet your true self. All right. Great. Well, thank you for joining us. It's been a wonderful topic. I'd love this. It was a really great conversation, don't you think?
Robert Maldonado 39:49
Thanks. Yes. I love the concept of the self, karma, Dharma.
Debra Maldonado 39:56
And next week we're going to talk about the God image, which is going to wrap up this four part spiritual series. And we invite you to really live your purpose, live with meaning, live with courage, because what do you got to lose? Like you're going to... At the end of your life, you're going to be there, what are you going to fill this space with? You can fill it with fear or you can fill it with exciting adventure.
Robert Maldonado 40:25
Debra Maldonado 40:26
So take care everyone. Thank you for joining us. And we'll see you next week...
Robert Maldonado 40:30
See you soon.
Debra Maldonado 40:32
... on our soul session. Take care.
Robert Maldonado 40:33
Thank you for joining us. And don't forget to subscribe to Creative Mind Soul Sessions. And join us next week as we explore another deep topic where you can consciously create your life with creative mind soul session. See you next time.